hoops parallel
i'm no basketball player, but the last few winters i have played a little intramural hoops at a pretty low level. this year i'm on a team composed of some guys who played in high school and then me. my job is generally to play defense, get rebounds and pass to the guys who are going to score. there are referees, which makes it a much different game than the occasional pick-up basketball i play.
anyway, last week i had a bit of a run-in with one of our opponents. (i should preface the story by noting that since i never played organized hoops, i'm generally unaware of the etiquitte of basketball.) it was the second half, and our team was on a bit of a run. the other team was getting a little tired and i would say they were about to lose their grasp and go from "we have a chance" to "this game is over". i pulled down a defensive rebound and my opponent took a poke at the ball. i gripped it hard and shielded it by turning away from him and looking for an outlet pass. he took another swipe, and then reached around, eventually with both arms, nearly hugging me in an attempt to strip the ball. the referees, who are far from skilled (although they try hard), were slow on the whistle, so i started moving in what could best be describes as a squirm in an attempt to shake him. of course, it was a bit of an agressive squirm as i got my elbows out to help clear a little space. well, the whistle came, but my defender took exception, and we squared off for a moment before the ref and teammates stepped in.
as we went down court i asked him what his problem was and he said something along the lines of "i was just trying to foul you to stop the momentum and give us a rest". at which point i realized what he was doing was not really malicious at all. by the end of the game i had apologized and told him i just wasn't ready for that.
this got me to thinking about foul limits in ultimate. here i was in what could best be described as a "friendly" game of hoops, but the intentional foul was already present. if this were ultimate, would it be a good idea to use the fouls? maybe when your guy is throwing a short pass to an unmarked receiver? would that be "bad spirit"? certainly, as the game presently works, that would be a gross violation of what's accepted, but if there were refs, it might become perfectly acceptable to play the man in that situation.
i'm not sure i'd be ready to deal with that, but it might not take long to change the mentality. maybe, more importantly, the rules aren't set up to handle a situation like that, as there is really no disadvantage to the marker. if there were a more severe penalty for the foul, maybe it sould become an acceptable tactic.
anyway, last week i had a bit of a run-in with one of our opponents. (i should preface the story by noting that since i never played organized hoops, i'm generally unaware of the etiquitte of basketball.) it was the second half, and our team was on a bit of a run. the other team was getting a little tired and i would say they were about to lose their grasp and go from "we have a chance" to "this game is over". i pulled down a defensive rebound and my opponent took a poke at the ball. i gripped it hard and shielded it by turning away from him and looking for an outlet pass. he took another swipe, and then reached around, eventually with both arms, nearly hugging me in an attempt to strip the ball. the referees, who are far from skilled (although they try hard), were slow on the whistle, so i started moving in what could best be describes as a squirm in an attempt to shake him. of course, it was a bit of an agressive squirm as i got my elbows out to help clear a little space. well, the whistle came, but my defender took exception, and we squared off for a moment before the ref and teammates stepped in.
as we went down court i asked him what his problem was and he said something along the lines of "i was just trying to foul you to stop the momentum and give us a rest". at which point i realized what he was doing was not really malicious at all. by the end of the game i had apologized and told him i just wasn't ready for that.
this got me to thinking about foul limits in ultimate. here i was in what could best be described as a "friendly" game of hoops, but the intentional foul was already present. if this were ultimate, would it be a good idea to use the fouls? maybe when your guy is throwing a short pass to an unmarked receiver? would that be "bad spirit"? certainly, as the game presently works, that would be a gross violation of what's accepted, but if there were refs, it might become perfectly acceptable to play the man in that situation.
i'm not sure i'd be ready to deal with that, but it might not take long to change the mentality. maybe, more importantly, the rules aren't set up to handle a situation like that, as there is really no disadvantage to the marker. if there were a more severe penalty for the foul, maybe it sould become an acceptable tactic.
posted by greg at
4:37 PM
4 Comments:
What drove me away from basketball for a number of years was the type of situation you just described (along with the general playground attitude).
I think, I could be wrong, that in the beginning basketball was played the same way as ultimate is now. Meaning very little contact was made and players would never intentionally foul each other even on a layup. It was a "non-contact". Now basketball has progressed to the point where people do intentionally foul and you can foul out, etc.
Ultimate seems to be on the same path where fouling becomes a strategy, etc. as you pointed out...and to me, well, that is unfortunate. I think that it takes away from the grace and flow of the game (even in basketball).
Maybe that is just the typical evolution in sports where contact between players happens and is inevitable regardless of the rules.
$
By
$, at 3/07/2006 7:14 PM
"Intentional Foul" is a specific term in basketball. It refers to a foul made with no attempt at contacting the ball.
So while the guy meant to foul you, it was not an Intentional Foul.
Other than that, you raise a great point. Since fouls are self referreed in ultimate, I make a concerted effort to avoid contact. In referreed sports I make a concerted to initiate contact whenever the ref is not looking. Checking behind the play in hockey is almost mandatory in competitive men's leagues. the reasons I like hockey, are not the same as the reasons I like ultimate.
I worry that ultimate would go the same route if regulations moved beyond observers.
By
Anonymous, at 3/08/2006 11:33 AM
this is a good distinction, chris. it wasn't an "intentional foul" as defined by the basketball rules, it was just a foul that he wasn't avoiding.
actually, this brings up what is probably one of my biggest weaknesses in basketball. playing some half-court 3-on-3 with friends about a month ago i kept noticing that i never fouled people when they went to the hoop, while i would always get contact when i went up. one of the guys, who also dabbles in frisbee, said that this is one of the big differences between hoops and ultimate. in hoops you make every attempt to go for a block, even if a foul results. in ultimate you make an attempt to play the disc while avoiding the contact. i guess it's partially related to the consequences of a foul. in ultimate, if you hack the receiver in the endzone it's his disc on the goal line; in hoops, if you hack a guy in the key they get the ball out of bounds, likely farther from the goal than they were before. what if a foul in the paint was an automatic hoop for the offensive team? i wonder if that would change things.
By
greg, at 3/09/2006 8:10 AM
fouling on a pass to the end zone = a free shot at the end zone?
maybe like soccer... fouling within 15 yards of the end zone would put the disc on the goal line. other fouls just reset the disc.
if you could foul out of a game, fouling on purpose to prevent an easy pass/goal, etc would be instanly accepted in ultimate. as you said, it took you only moments to change your mentality after the foul from a stranger.
By
Idris, at 3/09/2006 2:04 PM
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